Can't use dialup connection to ISP on a Verizon 650

Discussion of the Treo 650 smartphone

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jcarlosfox
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Can't use dialup connection to ISP on a Verizon 650

Post by jcarlosfox » Wed May 18, 2005 4:44 pm

Help. I've been using a T-600 for three weeks, before that a 7135 for 3 years. I used a Dial-up instead of QNC and "national access" for as long as I can remember.

On the T-600 I set up the Network Preferences as:

Virtual Modem
My ISP Dial-up username
My ISP Passcode
My ISP Dial-up number

Worked everytime for 3 years on both phones.

Got my T-650 today.

Won't work.

I get a log error saying:

"PPP timeout Could not open the network library, Perhaps this device does not support network communications."

I've still got my T-600 sitting here - is there a file I might bring over to "open network library".

Thanks in advance for all assistance.


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DrWowe
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Post by DrWowe » Wed May 18, 2005 4:49 pm

Has anyone gotten dialup to work on Verizon? Shadowmite's hack is still very new...

Unless it's confirmed, it's still possible that Verizon crippled bluetooth much deeper than just the disabled control.

I kinda want to know this myself, because a friend with Verizon is considering getting a 650.

tiusson
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Clarification...

Post by tiusson » Fri May 20, 2005 9:32 am

jcarlosfox, are you trying to use the connection on the Treo or use the Treo as a modem for your laptop? I am still waiting on answers to a few questions I posted on Treo Central. Maybe I will get better luck here....

Hopefully this is relevant to you too and I'm not hijacking your thread....

<quote>
I will likely be purchasing a Verizon Treo 650 in the next couple days. Can the phone be used to dialup to a non-verizon dialup number? My understanding is that the DUN hack is to get the phone to act as a BT modem for a laptop. That will be nice, but I'm more interested in just dialing up to my own ISP and using the connection on the Treo itself. Is a hack required to allow it to do that? I assume such a connection would use phone minutes and not use the data portion of the plan?
</quote>

Thanks!

jcarlosfox
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Post by jcarlosfox » Fri May 20, 2005 10:01 am

You are correct, I want to use my Treo to BOTH:

1) Use my Treo as a modem to connect my Laptop to the internet; AND

2) Use a dial-up connection to my own Dial-up ISP to connect my Treo 650 to the Internet to check email and browse the web. (Similar to what I could do with my Treo 600 and my Kyocera 7135 using either QNC or Dialup.)

The idea is to avoid paying Verizon for data usage, and avold subscribing to an expensive data plan.

I don't understand why everyone wants to use bluetooth to connect the Treo to a laptop - especially if the laptop is connected to the internet - why bother with the Treo, when you can use the Laptop? What we are trying to do is much more useful - as far as I can tell!

I hope someone who knows about how to "fix" these phones figures this out.

I've posted this here and on http://www.pdaphonehome.com - if you get an answer maybe you can spread the word.

tiusson
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Ditch the laptop

Post by tiusson » Fri May 20, 2005 12:52 pm

My goal is to be ablle to be oncall and be able to run to the store, gym, etc. I don't want to drag my laptop around with me. That is the purpose of having such a featureful handheld. In order to access my servers, I have to dialup to a specific location, so I need to know if this is possible before I make the company shell out the $$.

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Shadowmite
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Post by Shadowmite » Fri May 20, 2005 1:01 pm

There is no reason the treo shouldnt be able to do what you want, although it might take some configuation to get it working. The big thing is both Verizon and Sprint can see a call going out as data (because it connect threw the switch differently) and as such they charge a per minute data fee.

For what you want to do I SERIOUSLY recommend switching to Sprint PCS and getting the unlimited data for $15 a month (free with plans $100+). If you don't, you shouldn't be messing with data. Verizon just is not a realistically priced data company.

That said, I'll do my best to provide any support I can for verizon users. But my phone is Sprint and most of my experience is limited to Sprint.
---
Shadowmite

jcarlosfox
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Post by jcarlosfox » Fri May 20, 2005 2:44 pm

Well, I defer to your knowledge of how calls are handled by Verizon. What I do know is that for over 2 years I used a Kyocera 7135 with Verizon and dialed into my Dial-up ISP and was able to check email just about every hour on the hour.

I was billed for minutes only, and while the connection was slow, it worked for my needs. I also hooked it up to my laptop a few times to use it as a modem, and again it was slow, but did the job in a pinch.

If you scan the posts at http://www.pdaphonehome.com you'll see that the vast majority of Kyocera 7135 and Treo 600 users are calling into data using "qnc" - and that is Verizon's slow connection, and many are changing over to Dial-up as well.

From what I have seen, the way the T-650 works, even if I put a phone number in the Network field, the phone is not dialing out.

Thanks for your continued help with these phones.

tiusson
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No Data

Post by tiusson » Fri May 20, 2005 5:27 pm

A former employee had a Kyocera phone with palm software on the Verizon network. He was able to dialup to our network using only voice minutes. That was as of January 05.

jcarlosfox, any progress or are you still getting the network error?

Maybe I'll buy ithe 650 and bully Verizon around a bit if it doesn't work. I know our Kyocera guy had to raise a little hell to get his to work initially.

Thanks!

jcarlosfox
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Post by jcarlosfox » Fri May 20, 2005 7:16 pm

Verizon's "policy" is that the only way to access data is by paying for a data plan - for the Treo 650 they won't support anything, including the old MOU (Minutes of Use) that they used to call dialing up to either their free "qnc" network (User: qnc, passcode: qnv, Dial: #777). The MOU still works for anyone using a Kycoera 7135, AND anyone using a Treo 600 - it just won't work on a Treo 650.

I have read some posts of people calling "data support" and getting qnc enabled for Treo 650's - but it appears to be the exception, and not the rule. I tried, and FAILED to get it enabled.

From the error messages I am getting, it appears that while the Treo 650 is set up to do a "virtual modem" (the setting previously used to access dial-up and qnc), there are two things preventing a successful connection:

1) The phone will not DIAL the number assigned in the settings (the "in use" light does not go on), and it appears these calls are routed instead to the wireless network, AND

2) The Verizon Treo 650 appears to have either a missing, or locked, Network Library - whatever that is.

I suspect the Network Library probably exists in the ROM of the Treo 600 - so it may be something that can be found.

I don't know what the solution would be to make the phone actually DIAL the number put into the network profile.

It will ultimately be someone a lot smarter than I am to finally figure out the solution to this problem.

jcarlosfox
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Post by jcarlosfox » Sun May 22, 2005 5:23 pm

For what it is worth, I downloaded PDANet from http://www.junefabrics.com because I saw this page dealing with connection via dial-up:

http://www.junefabrics.com/palmnet/isp.html

Sure enough, this software allowed me to set up a dial-up connection on my laptop, allowed me to enter my ISP telephone number, username, and password, and it allowed my Treo 650 to dial into and use my dial-up ISP to connect the laptop to the Internet. The dial-up connection was set up as a Dial-up connection in my Network Connections area of the laptop.

So - it is POSSIBLE for force the Treo to Dial into an ISP - now, it remains to be seen if it is possible to set up the Treo 650 to dial into the ISP without being attached to a Laptop, and allow Internet access by the Treo 650 applications to the Dial-up connection.

surfshadow
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Great discussion

Post by surfshadow » Mon May 23, 2005 11:54 pm

I have been asking the same questions. I do not own a Treo, so I am not able to test it.

My experience is on Palm OS and ISP.
If the TREO retains the Palm OS Network Preference setup, I see no reason why dialing an isp is not possible. I do know that phone carrier may disable software, as this is in direct competition with their data services, but then I wonder how much can they disable with a Palm OS.

With nights free/National phone plan these days, you can dial any location and it makes no difference. There are many freenet dial ups available.

My other questions are will a light flash when there is email in the inbox or at least a beep! Is retrieval of email at preset intervals possible?

jcarlosfox
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Post by jcarlosfox » Wed May 25, 2005 2:51 pm

OK, since no one is actively working on this fix, I decided to look into the files related to networking on BOTH the Treo 600, and the Treo 650. The Treo 600 allows pure dial-up connections to any ISP, while the Treo 650 does not. Here is what I have found:

Treo 600 Network Related Files:

cmd-nettrace.prc (4 kb)
Net Prefs.prc (4 kb)
NetPatchLibrary.prc (11 kb)
Network.prc (68 kb)
Network_enUS.prc (17kb)
Network_es.prc (17 kb) (Not on the Treo 650 - but appears to be SPANISH)
NetworkDB.pdg (3 kb)
NetLibrary.prc (91 kb) (NOTE: This file is NOT on the Treo 650)

Treo 650 Network Related Files:

cmd-nettrace.prc (4 kb)
Net Prefs.prc (4 kb)
NetPatchLibrary.prc (11 kb)
Network.prc (69 kb)
Network_enUS.prc (18kb)
NetworkDB.pdg (3 kb)

So, the MAJOR differences are the MISSING NetLibrary.prc and the two slightly larger files named network.prc and Network_enUS.prc.

So, I coped the NetworkDB.pdb from my Treo 600 to my 650. There were no changes in behavior evident.

Next I TRIED to copy the missing NetLibrary.prc from the Treo 600 to the Treo 650 using an SD card and the Filez program. Filez REFUSES to copy the file. The error message is" "There was an error during copy, stopping." Using the Palm copy function, the file does not appear in the file list.

So, this brings up some questions:

1) Is there a "hidden" NetLibrary.prc file in the Treo 650 that is preventing the copy function?

2) Is there another method to copy the file to the Treo 650? (Don't say email, that is the reason I am going through this exercise.)

3) The error message I originally got on the Treo - that has since stopped coming back - is that the Treo could not open the Library file (see above posts).

4) The error I am getting now is PPP timeout.

Anyway, maybe I'm on the wrong track. Does anyone have any advise?

mpc67
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Verizon Treo 650 Wireless Dial-up Problem

Post by mpc67 » Wed May 25, 2005 6:37 pm

JCARLOSFOX, I'm happy to see that others are having the same problem as I am re not being able to connect to my ISP with the new VZ (Verizon) T-650. I have a T-600 with T-Mobile and no prob to connect to my ISP. Until yesterday, I was using my Kyocera 7135 with Verizon and no prob to connect to ISP.

Like you, I tried using PDANet and all it allowed me to do was to connect to my ISP via my notebook PC. I need the T-650 to connect directly to my ISP like my T-600 and Kyo7135 do. Both Palm Tech Supp and VZ Data Tech Supp told me today that they do NOT support that feature. They said "it may work, but, we do not support it". I called the 2 companies back about 3 more times to see if I could get a better answer, and I was unsuccessful. However, the last VZ Data guy told me, "I'll be honest with you, the reason we do not want to support this feature is because VZ wants the customers to BUY the data plan". As if none of us know this, DUHHH. Nevertheless, I told him that we are paying for it by using additional minutes above our voice usage, but still not enough for VZ.

Being that connecting to my ISP via dial-up to retrieve email is very important for my work, since I travel in many remote areas where the carrier's high speed is not accessable, I intend to return my T-650 to the VZ store. If/when I see a solution to this problem, I will re-buy it. Until then, I'll use my trusty Kyo7135. I'm sorry, but as far as important features go, the Kyo7135 is by far the BEST businessman's tool and friend. Unfortunately, it's now a little slow and lacks BT for a wireless headset.

Keep up the good work!! If I learn anything, I'll let you know.

jcarlosfox
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Post by jcarlosfox » Wed May 25, 2005 10:40 pm

So, I got the BRIGHT IDEA to let HOT SYNC install the prc file I want to try on my Treo 650.

Treo won't let it in!!

This is the message I got:

- Invalid handheld file deleted: C:\Program Files\Palm\CarlosJ\Install\Net Library.prc
OK Install with 1 message(s)


I'm running out of options and ideas here.

mpc67
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Returned T-650 to Verizon

Post by mpc67 » Thu May 26, 2005 11:20 am

Well, after waiting so long for the VZ T-650, only to be let down by not being able to connect to my ISP via DUN, I returned my T-650 to the VZ store. They told me I was the only one to do so. I told them that I am not the only one complaining about this problem, as I read many complaints. And, until they cover every inch of this country with web access, they need to allow business people with T-650's to connect via their DUN ISP. I wish everyone who needed this feature, and other now restricted features, would return their phone in protest against their restricting needed functions.

Now, I'm back with my Kyo7135 and happy to have all the features I need (minus the speed and BT). However, if/when VZ decides to correct this problem, I will again purchase the T-650. If not, I'll wait for another Palm based phone.

I hope someone keeps working on the DUN problem...

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